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    Rand Paul to Dr. Fauci: History of pandemic science advice is “wrong prediction after wrong prediction after wrong prediction”

    Rand Paul to Dr. Fauci: History of pandemic science advice is “wrong prediction after wrong prediction after wrong prediction”

    “I don’t think you’re the one person that gets to make a decision. We can listen to your advice, but there are people on the other side saying there’s not going to be a surge and that we can safely open the economy and the facts will bear this out.”

    Tuesday, members of the White House Task Force on Coronavirus testified before the Senate Health Committee. Specifically, their advise on the response and re-opening was questioned.

    Most notably, was an exchange between Sen. Rand Paul and Dr. Fauci. Sen. Paul questioned Fauci about the wisdom of keeping schools shut down, when children appear to be incredibly resistant and resilient with this particular virus. Sen. Paul also shot at Fauci, saying “I don’t think you’re the one person that gets to make a decision. We can listen to your advice, but there are people on the other side saying there’s not going to be a surge and that we can safely open the economy and the facts will bear this out.”

    The exchange was civil, but to the point.

    Watch:

    Full transcript here:

    Sen. Paul: Based on the idea that recovering Corona virus patients are developing immunity and that it can be beneficial as donated. Studies show that the recovering covet 19 patients from the asymptomatic to the very sick are showing significant antibody response. Studies show that SARS and MERS also viruses induce immunity for at least two to three years, and yet the media continues to report that we have no evidence that patients who survive coronavirus have immunity. I think actually the truth is the opposite. We have no evidence that survivors of coronavirus don’t have immunity and a great deal of evidence to suggest that they do. The question of immunity is linked to health policy and that workers who have gained immunity can be a strong part of our economic recovery.

    The silver lining to so many infections in the meat processing industry is that a large portion of these workers now have immunity. Those workers should be reassured that they likely won’t get it again instead of being alarmed by me or courts, that there is no evidence of immunity. You’ve stated publicly that you’d bet at all that survivors of coronavirus have some form of immunity. Can you help set the record straight that the scientific record as is as being accumulated is supportive that infection with Corona virus likely leads to some form of immunity? Dr. Fauci, right?

    Dr. Fauci: Yep. Thank you for the question, Senator Paul. Yes, you’re correct that I have said that given what we know about the recovery from virus such as coronaviruses in general or even any infectious disease, with very few exceptions, that when you have antibody present, it is very likely indicates a degree of protection. I think it’s in the semantics of how this is expressed. When you say has it been formally proven by longterm natural history studies, which is the only way that you can prove one, is it protected, which I said and would repeat is likely that it is, but also what is the degree or tighter of antibody that gives you that critical level of protection and what is the durability? As I’ve often said, you know, again, you can make a reasonable assumption that it would be protective but natural history studies over a period of months to a years will then tell you definitively it’s, that’s the case.

    Sen. Paul: And I think that’s important because in all likelihood is a good way of putting it. The vast majority of these people have immunity instead of saying there is no evidence, you know, the who kind of fed into this by saying no evidence of immunity. And in reality there’s every evidence stacking up. And in fact a lot of the different studies have shown that it is very unlikely that you get it again in the short term. With regard to going back to school, one thing that was left out of that discussion is um, mortality. I mean, shouldn’t we at least be discussing what the mortality of children is? Um, this is for Dr. Fauci as well. You know, the mortality between zero and 18 in the New York data zero, it’s not going to be absolutely zero, but it almost approaches zero between 18 and 45. The mortality in New York was a 10 out of 100,000.

    So really we do need to be thinking about that. We need to uh, observe with an open mind what went on in Sweden, where the kids kept going to school. The mortality per capita in Sweden is actually less than France, less than Italy, less than Spain, less than Belgium, less than the Netherlands, about the same as Switzerland. But basically I don’t think there’s anybody arguing that what happened in Sweden is an unacceptable result. I think people are intrigued by it and we should be, I don’t think any of us are certain when we do all these modelings, there’ve been more people wrong with modeling than right. We’re opening up a lot of economies around the, around the U S and I hope that people who are predicting doom and gloom and saying, Oh, we can’t do this, there’s going to be, the surge will admit that they were wrong.

    If there isn’t a surge, because I think that’s what’s going to happen in rural States. We never really reached any sort of pandemic levels in Kentucky and other States. We have less deaths in Kentucky than we have in an average flu season. It’s not to say this isn’t deadly, but really outside of new England, we’ve had a relatively benign course for this virus nationwide and I think the one size fits all that we’re going to have a national strategy and nobody’s going to go to school is kind of ridiculous.

    We really ought to be doing at school, district by school district and the power needs to be dispersed because people make wrong predictions and really the history of this, when we look back, we’ll be of wrong prediction after wrong prediction after wrong prediction. Starting with Ferguson in England. So I think we ought to have a little bit of humility in our belief that we know what’s best for the economy and as much as I respect to Dr. Fauci, I don’t think you’re the end all.

    I don’t think you’re the one person that gets to make a decision. We can listen to your advice, but there are people on the other side saying there’s not going to be a surge and that we can safely open the economy and the facts will bear this out. But if we keep kids out of school for another year, what’s going to happen is the poor and underprivileged kids who don’t have a parent that’s able to teach them at home are not going to learn for a full year. And I think we ought to look at the Swedish model and we got to look at letting our kids get back to school. I think it’s a huge mistake if we don’t open the schools in the fall. Thank you.

    Dr. Fauci: Mr. Chairman, can I respond to that even though there are only 32 seconds left?

    Chairman: Yes. And you might make it clear whether or not you suggested that we shouldn’t go back to school in the fall.

    Dr. Fauci: Well, uh, first of all, uh, Senator Paul, thank you for your comments. I have never made myself out to be the end all and only voice in this. I’m a scientist, a physician and a public health official. I give advice according to the best scientific evidence. There are a number of other people who come into that and give advice that are more related to the things that you spoke about, about the need to get the country back open again and economically. I don’t give advice about economic things. I don’t get advice about anything other than public health. So I wanted to respond to the second thing is that you use the word we should be humble about what we don’t know and I think that falls under the fact that we don’t know everything about this virus and we really better be very careful, particularly when it comes to children because the more and more we learn we’re seeing things about with this virus can do that we didn’t see from the studies in China or in Europe for example, right now children presenting with COVID-16 with COVID-19 who actually have a very strange inflammatory syndrome, very similar to Kawasaki syndrome.

    I think we’ve got to be careful if we are not cavalier and thinking that children are completely immune to the deleterious effects. So again, you’re right in the numbers that children in general do much, much better than adults and the elderly, and particularly those with underlying conditions. But I am very careful and hopefully humble and knowing that I don’t know everything about this disease. And that’s why I’m very reserved and making broad predictions. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Paul.

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    buck61 | May 12, 2020 at 2:56 pm

    Fort Lauderdale area
    Data shows people are dying at home, instead of going to hospital over coronavirus fears

    The campaign of the media and tv doctors creating fear in the population seems to have worked
    https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/05/12/data-shows-people-are-dying-at-home-instead-of-going-to-hospital-over-coronavirus-fears/


       
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      p in reply to buck61. | May 12, 2020 at 3:13 pm

      Not to mention people who will get diagnosed with certain things that would have been easier to treat just a few months ago if they had found out then. The medical personnel who have lost their jobs, hospitals and urgent care places that will go under because they’re losing money hand over fist…

      Personally if I needed to go to the hospital I’d do it. I’d probably pick one that has all-private ER rooms that can be closed off from the rest of the ER with more than just a curtain, though.

    CA just announced that the state will be closed through July. Thank you Dr. Fauci!!! What an a-hole!


     
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    CommoChief | May 12, 2020 at 5:36 pm

    DR Fauci has performed about as well as could be expected for someone in his circumstances. Put it in context, the man has been at CDC long enough to have been the point man on the AIDS epidemic. He is what 79, and is way more than vested in his pension, is an acknowledged authority in his field. Now there is a situation where he has been made a household name.

    PDJT can’t realistically be expected to fire the guy, if you want that then please be prepared to lose several percentage points from the suburban women and some suburban men during the November elections.

    Yes he gets a little bit over his ski at times. He has also been willing to correct or add to his public statements in order to take away or mitigate a MSM talking point.

    The man almost always says something along the lines of ‘I am a Public Health official or from the Public Health perspective’ when he is asked questions about big picture policy issues. Of course the man is going to approach every from that perspective, that is his job.

    Look, in my military career my primary job was communications. My role was to anticipate the mission commander’s needs in that regard. Providing the mission commander accurate data and advice while conforming to his operational plan. Yes, I was involved in mission planning but it wasn’t ‘my’ plan, it is the mission commander’s plan. What I owed the mission commander wasn’t my ‘approval or blessing’; I owed him the best advice and input on how he could implement his plan. I always viewed the planning process through my area of expertise. So did everyone else, through their area; medical, fire support, logistics etc. It was the mission commander’s plan and our job was to figure out how to make it work if at all possible. Yes, there were occasions when we couldn’t and had to inform the boss. No, we didn’t get fired because the bosses know that professionals do their dead level best to make it work and provide alternatives if we can’t. So they listen on the rare occasion when we say we can’t under x conditions but could do it under y conditions.

    DR Fauci has done about as well as could be expected under the circumstances. Despite their best efforts the MSM has not been able to find any real distance between DR Fauci and PDJT, not that they will stop trying to do so.

    He has given the President the benefits of his professional advice and opinion from his perspective as a Public health professional. IMO to fire him would simply create a firestorm of controversy and legitimate criticism.


       
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      Mac45 in reply to CommoChief. | May 12, 2020 at 9:03 pm

      Look, all of the predictions which Fauci made, in January and early February were actually accurate. The Covid virus is actually not a major medical problem for the USA and it never was. Why? Because with our medical resources, the at-risk population could easily have been identified and protected without incarcerating the entire population of the nation in their homes. As more and more cases were identified and dealt with, we would come up with therapeutic treatments and possibly a vaccine within a few months. But, something changed in early March. Suddenly, the medical leadership, which had been downplaying the danger from COVID, suddenly did a 180 and began parroting the media line that COVID was an apocalyptic disease which only the most draconian measures could defeat. But, data is data. The disease is turning out to be about the same as certain types of influenza without a vaccine and known therapeutic treatments. The medical profession allowed its leadership to reduce their credibility to between used car salesmen and lawyers. Good job, guys.


         
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        CommoChief in reply to Mac45. | May 12, 2020 at 9:27 pm

        Mac45,

        Up vote. That is a very precise and accurate summary. The problem is that many folks still cling to the need to be told what the ‘truth’ is by some credentialed ‘expert’. I don’t understand why that is the case but unfortunately these folks are either unable or unwilling to invest the time to do basic research and analysis.

        Any properly educated adult generalist could do so but they won’t or can’t. It baffles me why. This covid episode has revealed a great deal.

        1. Many people really are sheep waiting to be herded.

        2. Experts opinions will vary so if no overwhelmingly persuasive consensus opinion is reached then it confuses the sheep. All outlying opinions are apparently heresy.

        3. Despite substantial evidence against the prevailing consensus, the experts back away from their stance very slowly if at all.

        4. The MSM lack the ability to perform their function; they are not able to perform basic inquiry or fact finding. If they aren’t handed a set of talking points or a written leak they couldn’t find the truth if it sat in front of them.

        5. The numbers of elected/appointed officials who actually have tyrannical impulses is a bit higher than I anticipated. Not by a lot but still more and much more openly tyrannical.

        6. The patience of the American People to put up with more than six weeks of lockdown is astounding to me.


           
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          Mac45 in reply to CommoChief. | May 12, 2020 at 10:11 pm

          I feel that you are making a mistake with regard to some of your numbered points.

          2)Usually the “experts” opinions vary because one set of them is either grossly incompetent or lying. It is not meant to confused the common man, because these experts truly believe that the common man is not capable of understanding or following the “logic”. That is why they rarely deign to explain themselves.

          4)The MSM has no interest in finding put any facts. The news media has become a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democrat and liberal factions and are often directly controlled by the elite Establishment. They are simply a propaganda organ for these groups.

          5)Almost all modern politicians are really sociopaths. They care only for their own wants need and desires. The days of an intelligent, honest man being pressed to run for political office are almost over. All politicians actively seek not only elective office, but a career in elective office. Most of them work their way up the political ranks just like a ladder climbing corporate worker. They will do whatever their masters want them to do.

          While it is astounding that the populace would actually put up with six weeks of lockdown over this virus, it makes sense. For the last 50 years, schools have been teaching their students not to question the information put forth by those in authority, no matter how ridiculous it may seem. Just accept it, shut-up and do as you are told. Oh, and burn any heretics who may question official dogma and edicts.

          The simplest explanation for all of this is that some powerful group took advantage of the budding COVID pandemic to cripple the global economy. It is unlikely that it was any single government, or any government for that matter. So, look for who could best weather such a a shutdown. The US Stock Exchange might give you some idea of that. Then see if this group would have any reason to take steps to cause a near total collapse of the global economy. Proving anything would be nearly impossible. But, having n idea who your enemies might be could prove invaluable.


             
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            CommoChief in reply to Mac45. | May 12, 2020 at 11:17 pm

            Mac45,

            Okay I don’t think mistaken is correct, I will actually believe your commentary on points 2, 4 and 5 is basically where I am coming from. You state it more cynically is really the difference, IMO.

            As far the educational system, I won’t attempt to state what the facts were nationwide. I can say that I graduated HS in 1988, college in early 1990s. I was certainly still provided the classic liberal arts curriculum that emphasized how to think, and reason, not what to think in both HS and college.

            That is likely due to attending a small rural HS and a small college and small university for grad/law school. The faculty still held us to a standard. Obviously that wasn’t the case everywhere but it was the case in some places.

            My daughter is a Jr in HS and her faculty push her harder than I was based on homework. Very little attempt at indoctrination that I can find. Some but not much. She is wise beyond her years and tells me the subtle ways a very few teachers use. This is at a Public HS, though in the ‘better’ part of the city so the parents actually give a hoot, which likely helps keep the intersectionality nonsense to a lower level.

            Same for your follow the money conspiracy theories…I don’t know. I suppose the biggest beneficiaries, commercially at least, of killing off many small-scale business would be Amazon and the box stores. Politically I suppose the d could be a beneficiary but I don’t see this ending the way they hope.

            IMO, based on anecdotal observations the majority has had it with voluntary compliance. These folks don’t want to be forced into dealing with an actual confrontation. However, they are getting Damn close to being not only unwilling to voluntarily stay at home but also being unwilling to voluntarily and peacefully respond to attempts to enforce compliance.

            I hope that the local governmental entities nationwide will understand that. Some obviously do as a few Sheriffs, DA and county officials have stated they won’t attempt to enforce the lockdown. I hope the rest will see reason before things get out of hand.


             
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            Mac45 in reply to Mac45. | May 13, 2020 at 12:28 pm

            Chief,

            Some teachers and some schools may encourage personal investigation and even original thought. But, the grade schools, in most urban areas, do not. In fact, they have not encourage such activities for decades. This why most states now have graduate record exams to graduate from high school. And, with most college professors being died in the wool liberals, some radically so, personal investigation is only really encouraged if the research validates the professors points. Try challenging most professors and see what kind of dialogue ensues.

            You are missing my point on the Stock Market. The point is that the Stock Market responds to trading, not really to external influences. This give large, wealthy traders incredible power to influence the market, through simple buy and sell orders. And, they have a lot of leeway from the SEC in this regard. Especially if a seemingly unorganized group is involved. That being said, in a true financial breakdown, we would expect the market to collapse at least 30-35%, if not more. In 2008, the Dow dropped 34% initially and in 2009, fell to 50% of the high at the beginning of the recession. This year, we saw an initial drop of approximately 21%. Then it “recovered” to 12-14%.
            and has been fluctuating, for no apparent reason, between 13 and 14%. And, this was not with just a downturn in the financial markets but with the nearly total shutdown of both the US and global economy. It looks as though someone is propping the market up. Who could do that? The extremely rich, elite Establishment. And, something even more troubling, big investors actually make money on market swings. They, or their managers, closely watch the market and when stock prices begin to drop they sell. This actually accelerates the drop and makes it deeper. Then when the stocks stabilize, at the lower price, the big investor buys back in. This has a tendency to cause the market to rise. When it starts back down, the big investor takes his profits and waits for the market to stop sliding, then the cycle repeats. The SEC is supposed to stop such manipulation, but that is all but impossible, especially in the short run.

            So, what group is 1) best suited to survive closing the global economy and 2) even making money off the closing? Answer that and you will have a pretty good idea who to watch.


             
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            CommoChief in reply to Mac45. | May 13, 2020 at 1:37 pm

            Mac45,

            Educational indoctrination. Point taken and I don’t disagree that it has become more prevalent. You originally stated ‘coz the last 50 years’. I simply asserted my own experiences to the contrary. I am certain that your statement is more true today than ever.

            Market manipulation. Again point taken. However, I saw this coming and sold my accounts, my wife’s accounts and my daughter’s accounts. Then bought back at a significant discount, sold again and have netted over 15% in a few weeks. That doesn’t include the locked in gains from the first sales in January.

            All I am pointing out is that if you see it and I see it, then it isn’t some super secret squirrel market information. No conspiracy required. Big players always have better information and have it sooner than the little guy. That doesn’t mean we little guys can’t ride the big players trade moves if we pay attention. If some folks don’t choose to pay attention then the results are on them not Goldman Sachs.


     
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    tiger66 | May 12, 2020 at 5:40 pm

    I don’t care how “smart” Fauci is, I have nothing but contempt for him. He has almost single-handedly shut down the U.S. economy with zero consequences for him personally.

    Hey Doc, you useless sumbitch. Don’t tell me not to ever shake hands again. Figure how how to kill the damn disease. You’re a “scientist,” aren’t you?

    Oh gee, it’s really hard to figure out a cure or at least a prophylactic for the disease. Well admit you’re not up to the job, shut your mouth, quit your job, and ensure that someone takes your job who knows how to marshal the resources of the United States to combat this thing. We can walk on the moon; we can cure polio; we can go around the world underwater. But we’re totally flumoxed by a virus?

    Let me draw an analogy. When I was growing up, it was the Cold War and there was an atomic threat. The authorities spent billions on fallout shelters and whatnot. That investment didn’t do a damn thing to eliminate the threat. If the Russians had (stupidly) decided to nuke us, we (and they) would have all been a goner, fallout shelters or not. All that silliness about preparation wouldn’t have done a damn thing. It was government-sponsored kabuki. Looka busy.

    No, the ONLY way to deal with a life-threatening disease or virus is to figure out how to kill it or cure it IMMEDIATELY, not try to hide from it like we were told to do in the Cold War.

    Trying to stave it off (let’s not shake hands, let’s shelter in place for the next ten years) and then thinking that every little t’ing gon’ be alright is just stupid.

    The notion that it will be a year until a vaccine is available is total merde. CHANGE THE PROCESS! The oft-stated definition of insanity is doing what you’ve always been doing and expecting a different result. These folks at the CDC and in Washington are insane.

    Pathetic … and once again [just like with 9-11!], highly paid, firmly entrenched swampdwellers screw up, ruin the country, and then get off with ZERO accountability. Try that in the private sector, buckyboy. Can you spell Boeing??

    Here’s a quote from a presentation that the mayor of Charleston, SC recently gave:

    “Without a vaccine, we’re using 14th-century methods, which is what quarantine is, or social distancing. That’s really all we have at this point.” –Dr. Peter Hotez, Dean, National School of Tropical Medicine, Baylor College of Medicine

    Is that the best you can do, Snookie Boy? The docs own this one: lock, stock, & barrel. Listen to them talk, and they know everything. But on COVID-19, they don’t know crap.

    When all is said and done more is SAID than done. These b_stards have wounded our republic. It remains to be seen if we will ever recover.


     
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    PODKen | May 12, 2020 at 8:40 pm

    Despicable comments in this thread …


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