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    Too Far

    Too Far

    I was on record, before the Cordoba mosque and Islamic Center became a national story after Obama weighed in, that the organizers should have picked a different location, because the location was bound to result in the center being a target of radical Islamists for propaganda and agitation purposes.

    But I do not agree with the tenor and scope of the “Stop the Islamization” movement and protest.  Muslims, as any other religious group, should be held to abide by our civil laws.  Period.  To insist on such compliance is not anti-Muslim or Islamophobic, which is how some people want to play the issue.

    An insistence on the supremacy of our civil laws does not require or justify a broad swipe at any religious group.

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    I notice a lot of the comments above take several things for granted:

    1. Islam is a religion in the sense that Christianity or Judaism is.

    2. Most people will care if the Muslims are offended.

    Islam is a political system with religious trappings. As we all know, it means 'submission'. Muslims will tell you, yes, it means submission to Allah. What they will only tell you if you press them, is that this 'submission' includes submission of other cultures, submission of any non-Islamic legal code, submission of women, submission of lifestyle to Allah. In other words, live by the tenets of Islam or suffer the consequences. As a religion, it is not satisfied to merely exist in a place, it seeks to control it. Need proof? Look at all the nations, past and present, where Islam has existed, and look at the effects of that ideology on those places.

    Frankly, I don't think it matters if this mosque is stopped and the Muslims cry foul. After ten years of hearing about Islam being a religion of peace, and then watching all the goings-on in Iraq and Afghanistan, the rantings and ravings of devout Muslims like Ahmadinejad and Bin Laden, and seeing how every single time there has been a terrorist act during this period, it has been a Muslim, the whole 'religion of peace' and the accompanying sympathy for Islam is wearing thin. I know that many, many people I talk to from across the country, even democrats, from different backgrounds, are increasingly less impressed that Islam is a religion of peace. The thing I keep hearing is that there might be peaceful adherents of Islam, but Islam itself is not peaceful. It's a lot like the race card; an empty cause of solid harms. And people are sick of it.

    Islam is a political ideology with religious trappings. It does not seek to coexist with other religions/cultures/political systems, it seeks to make them 'submit'.
    Before you mindlessly jump to its defense, quit listening to what Muslims tell you about peace and coexistence and look at the history of this so-called religion. Muhammad was a warlord. In the Quran and the stories of the Hadiths, he approved lying to and murdering one's enemies. He explictly laid out a system of oppression in CONQUERED territories. Look at the places where Islam is practiced, or where Muslims are a large minority. Oppression and intolerance of non-Muslims is rife in the former (any churches or synagogues in Saudi? Is evangelization allowed in Iran? Can you convert from Islam in Somalia and live? Even Afghanistan, which we 'freed', tried to execute a man, by law, because he left Islam. The so-called Constitution we helped them write makes Islam the state religion and law.). Murder, intimidation, infiltration and the seeking of special rights (prayer rooms in secular schools, footbaths in airports) which relegate the rest of the population to second-class status are common.

    As far as the stopping of this mosque being a problem for us, don't bet on it. After 10 years of hearing how Islam is a 'religion of peace', and then seeing that every terror plot or attack against us has been perpetrated by a Muslim in that period, people are not buying it. What I am hearing from people all over is that there may be peaceful adherents to Islam, but Islam is not a peaceful religion. It's a lot like the race card; it's getting really old to rank and file Americans.

    Actually, I think folks knew Imam Rauf's views even before the release of these tapes. The debate is heated. I think seeing the 9/11 families speak out was a clincher for me. It's too raw, and this mosque is indeed right there at the center.

    Besides, if the Imam's truly moderate, no doubt he'd enjoy some hot summertime bikini blogging!

    Thou shalt not lie is one of the Ten Commandments, for anybody unfamiliar with the basic Judaeo-Christian code. Taqiyah is lying in the service of spreading the dogmas of Islam. The Ground Zero Imam is practicing this to the fullest in his quest to sell this "mosque" to the West and it's useful idiot stooges. The Third Reich will last a thousand years indeed. The GZM is a pearl in the belly of American Islam— whether it be founded by radical dogs of Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood. Muslims the world over will come to visit this landmark that glorifies their religion in all of its facets and aspects. And to think there will be places to store ammunition and to safehouse terrorist jihadists away from the prying eyes of law enforcement. It is time for Americans to throw out the bums who give succor to our enemies, foreign and domestic— and it is time to revoke the passports and citizenship privileges of practicing American Muslims who do not resist terrorist soldiers of Islam and their benefactors. Nothing complicated about it. Do. Or Die.

    Bear1909 out.

    Apronius: exactly.

    I strongly recommend that people read some of Bernard Lewis' books, particularly "Islam and the West" and "What Went Wrong?"

    Islam was created to dominate, not co-exist. It is foolish to believe that we can change their minds by demonstrating that we respect them. They not only don't care what we think but are offended that we butt into their world.

    Islam is the last of the major religions that is still attempting to become a "world religion" the way the Catholic Church once aspired to control the world. They are here and intend to conquer and we are making it too easy for them.

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